Lets say the gym strives to set 4 new problems in the V7 and up range each week. This can be done by a skilled routesetter in about 2 hours. The question becomes: if the setter is paid $15 an hour(is this a good rate for this type of job) it means the gym has to earn $30 more each week to off-set the cost. Assuming the people who take advantage of this use a punch card(~$10/visit at AIR) the gym needs 3 extra people each week. This seems very reasonable to me.
So now the question becomes: Why do Albany area gyms not hire a routesetting team?
Answer, Because AIR is run by cheap bastards who would rather have 10 volunteers working there than any actual paid workers
ReplyDeleteIs my calculation above no correct? AIR looses $24 every week from aandra and I when there are not new problems. In order to recoup money for the harder problemas they only need one more paying customer.
ReplyDeleteI think the AIR climbers have felt your frustration for years but feel like it is now getting better as more folks are allowed to and motivated to set.
ReplyDeleteI do think you are underestimating the time it takes to set great routes. From 8 years of setting experience I estimate it takes an average of 1 hour/route (more for harder routes, less for easier).
Most gyms aim for a 2-3 month turnover, which means you are going to see those same routes for several weeks as other areas are being worked on.
Also a setter needs to set for all climbing levels, so say 4 easy, 4 moderate, 4 hard in both roped and bouldering = 24 hrs/week at $15/hr is $360/week. I don't believe AIR is large enough to handle this sort of staffing cost.
Now a gym with 30+ ropes on 40' walls and two huge top out boulders will be able to handle it though. And more...
I definately underestistimated the time for setting. As for more moederate problems.... There were several new problems in that range. From my limited time At air it seems like the harder problems are the only ones in need of any overhaul. Maybe the volunteer system works there for moderates and maybe the managment doesn't know there is a desire for harder provblems. I bet you(Adam), ben, jp and murph would frequent the gym if there were prolems even on a biweekly.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Adam. I don't think that paid route setters would really work for AIR. For other gyms, the question becomes how often the routes are turned over. Adam had the idea of staggering the developement so that there are new routes every 2 weeks: 1st area 1st week, 2 weeks later another and so on for a 4 to 6 weeks.
ReplyDeleteany high quality gym def needs multiple people to set routes, for the most part lower grades can be done by anyone but the anything above moderates def require someone to set, if air had someone setting they could potentially have more people come to train, i for one would maybe have some motivation to go check it out if they did
ReplyDeleteAlbany does not have a dense enough climber base to be the full support of a gym. I for one, cannot understand this. Parties, groups and other "entertainment" visits are the bread and butter for the gyms in ALB. So that might give you a good idea why they don't bother hire anyone to set.
ReplyDeleteWho would make up this team of route setters anyway? Would you be willing to do it for pay? Even more important is setting for the level you are talking about. How many people can really climb at the >7 level and send in a couple of weeks. NOT MANY
I would suggest that if you really want new problems in the gym, you talk to the owner and then each week, someone in the posse sets something for everyone else to flail on for a couple of weeks. Rotate the setting duties.
I think Albany has the climber base, just hasn't tapped into it properly. I climb but never go to AIR cause it sucks. I know a number of climbers who feel the same way. It's discouraging. AIR could get a lot more climbers and a lot more customers if they 1. stopped being Nazis about their policies, 2. were less rude to their customers (personal experience, at least) and 3. set some new routes of varying difficulty and style once in a while. I'd be happy to go if they made those changes.
ReplyDeleteBut apparently being elitist meanies who cater to screaming children and don't see the danger in having kids zipping on a zipline overhead next to a lead route while hypocritically yelling at someone who's highballing a V0 works for them.
just to chime in, $15 an hour is not enough to attract a decent setter. Better off creating a budget for setting and paying by the job, ie 15 bucks a problem, 30 a route or something along these lines. That way a TRULY skilled setter could come earn a decent wage, while the less skilled who take a bit more time to gain near the same quality route are still getting compensated too.
ReplyDeleteSounds like in the case of AIR, an entire budget ($2000 a month for example) is entirely NOT feasible. Maybe instead, they could hire a small team to come in every so oftne and "flip" the entire gym. Maybe they could take a member survey and inquire as to what types of routes ppl would prefer.
I don't mean to rehash the points made above--most of which are sound--but as a climber who does periodically set at AIR, I feel the need to chime in. I think it's true that the elements holding the gym back from offering more routes of varying difficulty on a more regular rotation are, indeed, cost, lack of a training-oriented clientele, and need to cater to novice, top-roping groups/birthday parties, which frankly keep the place open. I bemoaned this fact for the first couple months I started climbing there, but then I recognized the aspect of AIR that I've never found in any larger gym: Total democracy. You want a V7, 9, 11 route? You set it. Everything that's up there is set by the folks who climb there. It all goes up in waves of motivation and, truth be told, the quality varies and the grading system is far from consistent. But you take out what you put in. If everyone set one route a week there'd be plenty to flail on.
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